@Background Pony #8FF2
It’s a completely valid interpretation of Zipp’s character, backed up by someone who had insider info as far as I know. So it’s more than just headcannon.
@Background Pony #9208
Wasn’t designed or written as nb. That’s not an official thing. But people can have that as a headcanon if that makes feel better.
@Background Pony #7FEF
Actually, plenty of people get emotionally invested in ships that are unlikely to be canon. Not because they have no canon basis, but because of things like censorship (like I mentioned for most queer ships) or simply because the story is going in another direction, etc. But to me and other shippers, the point is to explore the dynamic and potential itself. The reward is to see a community thrive and make fanworks.
Though I won’t lie, being validated by canon is something that everybody likes, so I do understand the disappointment. Even outside of ships, it feels similar to when a major character you like gets demoted to extra, or two characters stops interacting altogether.
There’s probably a whole conversation to be had about emotional boundaries and learning not to get too fixated on things we ultimately can’t control, but that’s a tangent for another time.
True, true.
The discussion we had was interesting all the same. I hope anyone else reading gets some insight into the topic too. Thanks again for remaining civil.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Sure! It’s something I’ve mentioned before, how I feel about Zipp’s identity is kind of a very specific case. In most other scenarios, I probably wouldn’t have paid it that much attention. But as we said, it’s a completetly subjective thing.
Just to wrap up that last point, I don’t think a ship loses its value just because it’s unlikely to become canon. When that’s the case, you’re usually not super emotionally invested in it anyway. For example, if I wanted to, I could ship Izzy and Senor Butterscotch, but that’s such a background, silly kind of ship that it’s basically a joke. So if the show ends up focusing more on Izzy and Sunny, Comet, or Destiny, I’m not going to be upset because I never really gave that ship much personal weight to begin with.
But when you have a ship you genuinely love, and it feels like it could actually happen, that’s when your emotional investment kicks in. You start rooting for it, create/share fanart and fanfics, or engage with other creators who love it too. And if it does become canon, it feels like a personal victory, like all the energy and love you poured into it was seen and rewarded.
There’s probably a whole conversation to be had about emotional boundaries and learning not to get too fixated on things we ultimately can’t control, but that’s a tangent for another time.
Anyway, all we can do now is wait and see what surprises come next. One thing’s for sure, whatever happens, I have no doubt we’ll find ourselves diving into another debate sometime soon, haha.
@Background Pony #E03C
It’s because you have a different interpretation of Zipp than I do, and that’s okay. Though not wanting a character to be queer does, unfortunately, usually come from a place of bigotry for many people, in your case it seems you just don’t want Zipp to have a certain archetype or storyline that goes against your interpretation. And that I can understand. That’s just preference, and like you said, something subjective. Nothing wrong with that. In a way, it’s the reason why some people are drawn to specific ships.
That’s where the frustration really comes from. If Zipp and Chrys do end up together, and the Stormblazer fanbase is still going strong, there’s still going to be this lingering disappointment,not because Zipp is queer, but because we lost something we put a lot of emotional investment into. Something that, at one point, felt like it genuinely had a chance.
I can sympathize with that. But at the same time, I also think it’s due to a lot of modern fandom putting too much value into what is canon. That if a ship is unlikely to become canon, it loses value somehow. I just don’t think that is true, but I can’t tell you how to feel. That kind of thing is personal, after all. And I guess it’s also another conversation altogether.
In any case, I hope we can still enjoy what is left of G5. Or at the very least, to see its fandom explore the potential it had.
@Background Pony #7B9B
I totally get it. I have a bunch of ships I still love, even if they got sunk in favor of another one that came up in the story. It usually doesn’t bother me too much when it’s a ship I kind of knew from the start wasn’t going to happen. But it does sting when the ship actually made sense and seemed like it had a real shot, only to be pushed aside for some unexpected romance. That’s the part that leaves a bad taste. Like, if it just doesn’t become canon, at least the ambiguity leaves room to imagine things your own way. It keeps the magic alive a bit. But when a new ship pops up and completely changes the dynamic for both the story and the fandom, it creates that bitter feeling of “what could’ve been” or “what we lost.” And that feeling sticks, even if you choose to hang out with fans who feel the same way, or just ignore the fandom altogether. It still changes how you see the story.
That’s kind of what’s happening to me with Stormblazer. Before this comic, I could chill and think, “Wow, it would’ve been so cool if that had happened,” because there was nothing telling me it couldn’t. But then Chrys came along and suddenly things feel different. Now there’s this new possibility—another potential match for Zipp. I know people say the same about Hitch, since he gets shipped with pretty much everyone, haha. But at least in those cases, you could compare character dynamics and argue what made more sense. With Chrys, though, it feels more intentional,like they might be hinting at something deeper. Honestly, I’ve seen a lot of stories with “hidden” LGBTQ couples where the clues were clearly meant to make fans read the relationship as romantic, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what’s happening here too.
That’s where the frustration really comes from. If Zipp and Chrys do end up together, and the Stormblazer fanbase is still going strong, there’s still going to be this lingering disappointment,not because Zipp is queer, but because we lost something we put a lot of emotional investment into. Something that, at one point, felt like it genuinely had a chance.
I’m not sure if I explained this clearly before, but for a lot of us, not wanting Zipp to be portrayed as queer wasn’t about trying to erase representation,it was more about giving her a kind of meaning that’s honestly pretty personal and subjective. It wasn’t about being against representation. I’ve seen lots of people who feel the same way,like, “There are other characters who could carry a inclusive story better without losing what Zipp meant to some of us.” Of course, there are always those few people who just want to start fights and discredit others, like we talked about before,but that’s not necessarily the norm.
@Background Pony #F77F
I understand that it’s a possibility, but again, even if Zipp gets together with Chrys, that won’t stop people from shipping other ships. It might just make some fans shift their focus. As in, there would be fanart and fanfic featuring Zipp/Chrys for a time, probably. As it tends to happen.
Is that what you’re worried about? That your ship might lose ers or something along those lines? Or that you and other fans will no longer have the freedom to ship it since it would “erase” canon queer representation?
Because, like I said, that is just typical ship war toxicity. It’s just using the queer rep as an excuse. I’ve had to deal with queerphobes who used Stormblazer in their arguments, for example. It’s not something that reflects fandom as a whole, just certain parts of it, usually limited to social media like Twitter.
You’re allowed to ship what you want. A ship not being canon doesn’t make it any less “valid”.
But if we’re being honest, with how small G5 fandom is compared to G4, I doubt it would ever get to that point of hype and toxicity. Still, the best thing to do is block. Fandom should be for fun, and nobody should have to deal with people who ruin it for us.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Yeah, pretty true. I really like that we’re mostly on the same page with a lot of this stuff and that we don’t actually think so differently.
I think my concern comes from the fact that, at least with My Little Pony, we know that behind the scenes there were people who paid attention to what the fandom was doing and sometimes that actually influenced the canon. You can see it in things like the Slice of Life or Fame and Misfortune episodes, the hints at Appledash or Rarijack (In Equestria Girls), or even just making Lyra and Bon Bon canon because fans wanted it. Those kinds of things really felt like direct responses to fan activity. Not always, but it was definitely a thing that happened.
So with that in mind, the worry is that if the whole Chrys and Zipp pairing idea starts getting more attention, it might actually make its way into the main canon if the G5 story continues somehow, whether through more comics or if the show makes a comeback (even if that seems unlikely right now).
I see two possible scenarios here: 1. The comic writers just wanted to play around with a new dynamic, with no further implications Or 2. They’re testing the waters to see how people would react to Zipp having a female love interest, and if that could be something they build on, whether with Chrys or someone else.
I guess we just have to wait and see where things go from now on. At the very least, this conversation sets a precedent that it was something that definitely had us paying attention, haha.
@Background Pony #9459
Oh, tell me about it! I’m a shipper at heart, and it’s part of what makes liking stories and characters so enjoyable, so I totally get it. I also think the avoidance of overt romantic cues actually forces the writing to really present the relationship between two characters as something that works, even if the intent is usually platonic.
And okay, so now I see what you’re saying, and coincidentally, I was just thinking of TOH as example, with Luz and Hunter. People have gotten wild in that fandom, and I’ve seen it happen in other fandoms too. It’s just toxic. Even though I can see where the protectiveness might come from, let’s be completely honest, it always, always tends to come down to ship wars. Some people just cannot tolerate another ship or headcannon existing, much less letting it become popular if they can help it. It’s the type of behavior I stay away from.
As for Zipp and this comic, I don’t know. They might imply it, like they imply Appledash, but I don’t see it as likely. And even if that ends up being the case, say, in another comic, that still won’t prevent people from shipping something else, or writing fanfic where they break up or something, or an AU. You know, typical fandom things. We don’t even know if IDW will continue making G5 comics.
We cannot really control what becomes popular or not, in the end. Some ships explode based on a minuscule interaction, and others get popular for a time, and then people move on to something else. And so on. I think we should just focus on having fun while we’re still around.
Definitely. When a ship isn’t clearly confirmed within a story, it’s naturally going to be open to multiple interpretations, and that’s totally understandable. Personally, I’m not that much into shows or movies where it’s obvious from the very beginning which couple is going to be endgame, or when it’s marketed heavily as a romance. I usually enjoy stories a lot more when the romantic elements are secondary to a broader narrative, or when they emerge unexpectedly as a pleasant surprise. In my case, ambiguity can actually be a huge draw, it keeps me curious and engaged, wanting to see where things might lead. And yeah, I know that in a franchise like My Little Pony, romance is never going to be a central theme (at least not for the main cast), but I’d be lying if I said the ships didn’t play a role in keeping me invested in this generation. Canon or not, they became part of the overall experience, and as someone who enjoys analyzing stories, characters, and their dynamics, it keeps my mind active (even if it can sometimes make me a bit overly anxious, haha).
As for the second part, yeah, that’s more or less what I meant. People can be really extreme when it comes to this kind of thing. I get that it often comes from a place of wanting to “protect” a character who represents something meaningful or personal, but it can easily cross the line into toxicity. It’s not uncommon to see outrage online if someone ships a canonically queer character (or even just one with a popular headcanon) with someone of the opposite gender. Sometimes it gets so intense it’s almost absurd. Take The Owl House fandom, for example, Luz is canonically bisexual, but people would absolutely lose it if someone shipped her with Hunter. It wasn’t even about whether it was “right” or “wrong,” it was more like people couldn’t tolerate any pairing that didn’t involve Amity, even though the canon relationship wasn’t at risk.
In the case of Zipp being seen as queer, I’ve actually seen that a lot of Stormblazer fans are queer shippers themselves, and they’d probably see her being bi as something positive that adds even more depth or resonance to the ship. Honestly, I think many fans would be open to any identity for her, as long as it doesn’t sink the ship (even if my personal take is a little different). Again, going back to The Owl House, after the show ended, it was confirmed that Hunter is bi and Willow is pan, and my first thought was, “Cool, the ship is still canon, which is what mattered to me, so it doesn’t really change anything.” But in Zipp’s case, because there were already so many headcanons and assumptions attached to her from early on, some people are now determined to define her as exclusively gay, not always out of a genuine desire for representation, but to create conflict, even if that doesn’t actually align with what’s shown in the story.
Or it could go the other way, people might still see Zipp as bi, but now they’ll start pushing for Chrys to be the canon ship and try to sink Stormblazer completely. In this case, it’s not just Zipp making some vague comment that might hint she likes girls, we were actually given (vaguely or not) the implication that there could be something going on between her and this mare Chrys. And that’s kind of a double-edged sword. And I wish I was just being dramatic this time, but honestly, I’ve seen how things that seem small, unlikely or harmless in a story can suddenly blow up into something way bigger, and not always in a good way. That’s why I don’t really underestimate storylines anymore. You never know what the writers might decide to do next and how people may react to it.
@Background Pony #1C60
Yeah, I also tend to think about official pairings and ships as separate things. Canon pairings receive more scrunity because as something official, they will greatly be affected by the writing. But ships I think of as a fandom thing. The “writing” will greatly vary from person to person, you know?
About the second thing you said, are you talking about the type of people who get overly defensive over a character being canonically queer? As in, those that claim you can’t ship a female character (who has canonically shown romantic interest in another girl) with a guy, because if you do you’re somehow erasing canon representation?
If so, I don’t agree with those people. I think that attitude is kind of toxic. Not only because it ignores orientations like being bi or pan, but because I don’t believe anything in fandom can overwrite what is canon in general, so fans should be able to do what they want.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Yeah, I think something we really have in common is that we’re able to look at ships a bit more objectively, beyond just our personal preferences. I don’t usually judge a ship just because it’s queer or straight unless the story is specifically trying to talk about that, which doesn’t happen that often.
In the end, I know Stormblazer fans wouldn’t be super excited about Zipp or Hitch ending up with someone else,and that’s totally normal, really. It’s just that with Zipp specifically, things feel a bit more controversial because, whether it’s intentional or not, her being in a queer relationship could have a somewhat disproportionate impact due to all the ideological stuff that can come with it. Not necessarily because people are “anti-representation,” but more because that kind of thing can easily be hijacked by extreme speeches on the fandom. Maybe that’s a bit of a pessimistic view (and okay, maybe a bit dramatic too), but I don’t think it’s that unlikely.
I’m talking more from Zipp’s side, since,even though we could argue it’d be just as controversial with Hitch,he’s not as commonly tied to a specific gender archetype the way she is.
@Background Pony #2F3A
I understand your worry, I really do. But I personally think they’re not replacing anything. I don’t mean it in the romantic sense, as I believe there was none to begin with, for any Mane 6 character. I mean in the dynamic sense. Hitch and Zipp will continue to be the buddy cop duo, just like Sunny and Zipp will continue being the explorers, etc.
In the fandom sense, yes, that will probably happen again. Just like for like a year I was annoyed by people using your ship to claim the opposite. That Zipp couldn’t gay and things like that. But that’s just fandom, we don’t have to agree on everything.
I guess it’s because I’m of the attitude that we can work with whatever canon does anyway. See, as a queer shipper in general, my ships often had a close bond and a level of trust that in the end meant nothing because the love interest was someone else. I just acknowledge that it’s canon and do my own thing anyway. It happens even when the canon ship is queer, even if it isn’t as often.
This will probably happen more now with straight ships as platonic female/male bonds are represented in a way they often weren’t in the past. I think this is what happened in G5.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Sure, I think we can agree that, even if each relationship had a different level of closeness, we can’t really know what else might’ve happened between them or where things could’ve gone. It’s kind of sad, but at least we can have fun speculating about it.
As for the last part, you’re probably right. It’s just that (maybe because I tend to overthink things) I really don’t know if we can say for sure what’s going to happen next. Like with other characters such as Violette Rainbow or Tracy Tailspin (who actually made a cameo in this comic), it’s uncertain whether this mare, Chrys, will end up being important later on. And honestly, I can’t really take that lightly anymore. Before, we could just say, “external stuff doesn’t affect the main canon,” which was both kind of comforting and a little disappointing. There were comics that hinted at the Stormblazer dynamic, and I had to just accept them as “non-canon,” but on the other hand, I could feel at ease knowing that, say, Primrose from the first video game wasn’t going to show up out of nowhere and become Hitch’s love interest.
The thing is, whether they meant it or not, the comics are all we have left now to keep enjoying the adventures of these characters. They’ve kind of become the only “canon” we have, now that there’s no main show guiding things anymore. So if anything big happens, we can’t really brush it off like we used to.
And it’s not just about the possibility of a new love interest. Even if Chrys were a guy, it would still bug me that they seem to be replacing something that, in my opinion (and maybe in a lot of people’s) actually worked really well. It’s more about what I mentioned earlier, it’s like they handed the detractores a weapon on a silver platter to go, “lol lmao Stormblazer is dead cuz Zipp is gay baby.” Before, there wasn’t really a strong argument for that, and now that things are more explicit, it’s likely some people are going to twist it in the worst ways.
@Background Pony #2335
Zipp and Hitch are the buddy cop duo, like Izzy and Pipp are the artists, etc. They were going to give all of them something to bond over and/or play off each other. It’s just sad that we’ll never see how it was gonna play out now that no content will come out. But at least we have fandom, huh?
And yeah, I understand. I do the same thing, even though I have a preference for queer ships, I try to take the story for what it is.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that while representation is super important, it shouldn’t be put above something that’s already working well for the story, especially if the audience has already connected with that setup.
I honestly think this is where we mainly differ. I don’t have a problem with the comic suddenly introducing (barely implying, really) a possible female love interest for Zipp because a. it’s merely to expand on her character, nothing long-lasting, and b. I already thought she might like girls.
I don’t really think this changes anything. It’s not like it’s going to affect the story, which has always been about friendship and other platonic bonds. It might affect fandom perception, though. But that always tends to happen with new canon material.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Trust me, I do get it. It’s clear that even today, there are still prejudices or misunderstandings around queer representation in media. And yeah, it would be awesome if someday it could just be accepted without causing such a fuss. But that really depends on how we grow as a society.
You’ve probably noticed from the way I talk that I don’t really see much difference between whether a couple is queer or straight, I usually just look at whether the relationship works within the story or not. It’s just that, in this specific case with the comic, all this debate came up around what Zipp should or shouldn’t be, and with that, a great division of opinions started . I’m not usually like this. this was kind of a one-off situation.
You’re also totally right about that last point. Every duo had its own special vibe, but like I mentioned, each one was written with a different approach in mind. Zipp and Pipp are sisters, so naturally their bond is going to be stronger than with anyone else. Sunny and Hitch are childhood friends, so it makes sense that they’re super close. Hitch and Zipp have a different kind of subtext, but I think we’d just be going in circles talking about that.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that while representation is super important, it shouldn’t be put above something that’s already working well for the story, especially if the audience has already connected with that setup.
@Background Pony #4C7A
I don’t think I’m making myself clear, because I do agree with your general points, so I apologize if I’m not explaing in a way that you can understand.
I agree that in an ideal world, Appledash would have had implied moments and developed in such a way that it was openly romantic. But my point is that it couldn’t, even if it was planned from the beginning (which I don’t personally think is the case, of any main character ship, but I disgress). This simply does not happen with straight ships. Straight ships have the freedom to be forced, badly written, sudden, etc. and nobody would question that they are canon, just that they are bad canon ships.
Lyra and Bon is the only instance where it’s stablished in canon that they got married, and it was in a blink and you’ll miss it moment. Whereas all the other canon straight ships are overtly romantic: they kiss, stare into each other’s eyes, blush, have children and get married.
All this to say, that I wish queer ships would be treated equal to straight ships in media. And that in fandom, the bonds each character has with another would all be equally weighted no matter their gender.
And about your last point, I completely agree. But again, this would apply to other duos as well. Sunny and Hitch’s dynamic, and Zipp and Pipp’s, for example, were clearly meant to be explored in the narrative. We would have likely seen others later on, too, like Sunny and Zipp’s, from what we see in the comics and TYT, since apparently plots from TYT are repurposed MYM plots, like Allura’s. Or so I’ve been told. Still, all this does tell us is that G5 had organic friendships in mind, and for that I love it.
Also, I think we had our opinions set already, even outside the context of this franchise. This comic only made us talk about it in the open, as we often tend to be around others who also share our opinion.
@Background Pony #7B9B
The issue often comes down to how we talk about “good writing”and the idea that, with good writing, almost any narrative choice can be made to work. But that raises a question: how do we actually define good writing? A simple definition might be “a story that makes sense and feels coherent.” It sounds simple, but in practice, it’s surprisingly difficult to achieve. Every story sets certain expectations for its audience, and when those expectations are suddenly shifted, replaced, or contradicted can create a sense of dissonance, And I think this entire debate is proof of that, a simple comic completely polarized our opinions about how relationships and representation should be handled within the franchise.
For my part, I never really underestimated how G4 approached representation. In its later seasons, the show had already begun to make progress, with characters like Scootaloo’s aunts or the implied relationship between Lyra and Bon Bon. If G5 had followed a similar path, laying the groundwork from the beginning, I think people would’ve been totally on board. In fact, that’s kinda what happened with Moonscout. The movie gave them a lot of shippy moments, and most fans seemed to enjoy it (myself included). it could’ve easily continued in that direction.
When comparing ships like Cheesepie and Appledash, it’s important to acknowledge the very different contexts in which they were developed. Applejack and Rainbow Dash are both main characters, while Cheese is a secondary character. With two main characters, it’s reasonable for the audience to expect a certain level of narrative clarity, especially when it comes to something as significant as a romantic plot. Their interactions are frequent, so if a relationship is being developed, it should feel deliberate and well-integrated. In contrast, a dynamic between a main and a secondary character is naturally more limited in of screen time, but if those moments are meaningful, they can still carry emotional weight. That’s what made Cheesepie work. The show framed Pinkie and Cheese as highly compatible from the start, so their connection felt intuitive. It didn’t require a deep, complex arc to feel plausible,though, of course, more development (like what we saw in the comics) would have strengthened it further.
Appledash, on the other hand, didn’t receive that same level of narrative . Their apparent relationship is only hinted at in the final episode, with little prior buildup. If there had been at least one episode in the last season planting a seed suggesting the potential for something more, it might have felt more organic. Cheese, for instance, got a full episode to re-establish his connection with Pinkie, which helped reinforce their bond in the audience’s mind. Without that, Cheesepie might have felt more abrupt as well. The challenge with Appledash is that its canon status seems to rely on viewers retroactively to go back and “fill in the blanks” to make it work. And I don’t think that was the original plan from early on in the series.
It’s not necessarily about the ship being queer (although I do not deny that some people may do it for this reason), it’s about how the storytelling handled (or didn’t handle) its development. And that’s why some people remain uncertain about whether it was ever truly intended to be canon.
About the leak,whether or not the dynamic described in the bible made it fully into MYM, it still shows that there was a genuine intent behind the scenes to explore that relationship in a meaningful way. That kind of insight matters, it reinforces the idea that not all character dynamics are created equal. Some are built with a clear direction and emotional intent, while others are more incidental. So when fans read into that particular relationship, it wasn’t just wishful thinking, it was a valid reading grounded in how the characters were written. And that’s a level of depth not all ships in the show have had.
@Background Pony #9402
That type of thing will always be subjective, because at the end of the day, if a story is well-written it’s well written. Feelings are not necessesarily rational, and what we believe makes a ship work is based on our own beliefs of what makes a romantic relationship work. Or not work. You get the idea. So what “makes sense” to you or me will not always make sense to someone else. What matters, in my opinion, is whether or not the writers accomplished whatever they were going for, in presenting their intentions in the work. I think this is true of fiction in general.
About your second point, I feel like the distinct attitudes fandom has had about ship canonicity is exactly because of what I mentioned, about being influenced by real life culture. In later seasons of G4, those were years where some various cartoon shows got a canon queer relationship. Suddenly queer ships were no longer just a fandom thing, they could become canon. And then G5 came along, with a male character as part of the Mane 5/6. Of course it wasn’t going to have the same attitude as G4, which had an all girl cast. Straight ships could become canon since forever, and overtly. Compare Appledash, which still has deniers due to its implied status, to Cheesepie. Why do you think plenty of fandom focused on which mare Hitch was going to end up with? Sure, Moonscout is popular due to the movie, but frankly, it is obvious that most of us, in this franchise, only expected it or other queer ships to be implied, at most. It’s a sad state of affairs, as a queer shipper.
@Background Pony #9208
The first leak is reasonable to use as shipping fuel by fans, but it does not tell us anything about canon other than Zipp and Hitch’s relationship was seemingly going to resemble Pipp and Zipp’s in the present. As that line means that even though they don’t always understand each other’s POV, they deep down don’t mind it in the slightest. This dynamic ended up not being a thing in MYM.
I completely agree about the second leak, though. I agree that non-binary represenation is even more rare, and that type of shipping would also apply to nb x female character as well. I’m fairly sure many shippers of Zipp will multiple ponies already think of her like this. I know I do.
@Background Pony #9208
I was aware of the first leak, I didn’t bring it up directly in the conversation because I felt it was already kind of implied when I said I saw potential for Stormblazer to happen or that their dynamic felt special. Objectively, it doesn’t confirm a canon relationship, but it does tell us their bond was unique, which, as a Stormblazer fan, I appreciate fondly.
The second leak however, feels a bit more iffy in of credibility. The first one came from a production bible, which is a pretty big deal when it comes to making a show, but this one feels more like a random comment that may or may not be true. Even if we assume the person is saying the truth, it sounds more like one of those early-stage ideas that didn’t make it past the brainstorming phase. Even in the earliest known concepts of the characters, there’s no real hint of that. And in the show itself, I don’t think there’s anything solid to it (maybe that one scene in the first special where Haven finally agrees to call her Zipp? I know some people saw that as a trans allegory, but personally I think that’s more of an alternative interpretation than a confirmation of her identity).
I’m really not trying to start a whole debate about whether early concepts should count if they’re not reflected in the final product. Personally, I just lean more toward the classic “show, don’t tell.” If a piece of media doesn’t give you enough to an interpretation that’s meant to be central, then it just doesn’t carry the same weight for me. But that’s just how I see it, everyone’s free to feel differently, it’s definitely a nuanced topic.
A couple of notes on what canon was fueling or going for:
The leaked MYM bible had wording about Hitch and Zipp which is very reasonable to interpret as implying a canon ship. >>3493249
As Zipp takes on her Detective role, she and Hitch develop a fun buddy-cop dynamic where he is the goofy one and she is the serious straight-man. They drive each other nuts, but they both secretly love it.
A separate leak revealed that Zipp is designed and written as a nonbinary character, which explains a ton about her. Whether consistent language like “straight” or “lesbian” exists for nonbinary ships, I’m not sure, but enby x male certainly subverts more expectations than either straight or same-sex would. As much as finding a non-straight ship in the wild might feel like a treat, nonbinary representation - let alone nonbinary shipping - really is almost nonexistent. Feels like this should be part of the dialogue.
@Background Pony #7B9B
True. Although I think we should also take into that the canon decisions are not always necessarily the best for the story. Sometimes, even if a couple is ‘justified’ within the story, it can still feel off if the character’s idea doesn’t match the relationship they’re presenting. And this can create a bit of a conflict for the audience because, while it doesn’t feel ‘forced,’ it doesn’t feel quite right either. And it’s not always about being biased toward another ship, but more like the decisions seem random or unfitting rather than ing the storyline. I get that it’s impossible to please everyone, but I do think it’s fair to say that some decisions will be received better than others.
As I also stated, I am aware popularity isn’t always tied to the canon, but like you said, there are other factors at play. At the beginning of G4, all the ships were mostly just for fun because no one really thought they had a real chance of happening. It wasn’t until a few years later that people started to take them more seriously. And with G5, I feel like people weren’t treating it as a joke anymore (At least, not with the main cast), and the popularity was more about how the character dynamics were developing in the show rather than overanalyzing things. Is there still overanalysis of interactions? Definitely, there will always be people who see a simple glance between two characters as shipping fuel, but from what I’ve read, the arguments don’t seem as far-fetched as they used to be. And that kind of opens the door for more debates and
@Background Pony #5E36
Of course, but my point was that should the narrative go in that direction, that it already has a foundation, and all the pairings with lesser screentime really need would be that, screentime. To interact and bond. In this hypothetical scenario, where MLP does have a romance arc, they would make the chosen couple interact. It’s really as simple as that. Whether the chosen couple is of our preference is another matter altogether. For things to stay consistent and coherent it would only require good writing in general, really.
Popularity in fandom is not the same as canon status, as we previously stablished, and from what I’ve seen, it’s usually a mix of factors coming together. Things like the gender and age of most people in the fandom, tropes and archetypes most popular in each group, the current culture, etc. But generally, all a ship needs to gain a large following is interact in canon, or have the potential to interact in a way that a big portion of the fandom likes. Which is why you see a lot of “crackships” being popular, but really, any ship will gain a following so long as someone shows the potential. Fandom thrives on potential scenarios.
I’t’s a shame that G5 ended the way it did. We were already starting to see some of that potential in various arworks.
@Background Pony #7B9B
Totally fair points. Though, there’s one thing you said near the end that made me want to share a little thought. Again, this might just be my own bias talking, but I’m not sure I’d fully agree that all the Mane 6 ships would have the same chance of happening if the story decided to go that route. I mean, yeah—technically, the writers can make anything happen, whether it makes sense or not. That goes for romance and just narrative choices in general. But let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that the writers and directors want to keep things consistent and coherent.
Looking back at the series, I think it’s fair to say that while they were all friends, their relationships with each other weren’t all exactly the same. Like, for example, the way Hitch interacted with Izzy wasn’t the same as how he acted around Sunny. Same thing with Sunny and Pipp where it’s not quite the same dynamic she had with Misty. Of course, they all had chemistry, because they’re friends, but some bonds felt a bit closer or more “special” than others. And I think that shows in the ships that ended up becoming more popular in the fandom. That popularity even shifted a bit as the show went on. I think this generation was kind of a special case, because the most popular ships didn’t just come out of nowhere,they were genuinely backed by stuff we saw in the series, intentionally or not.
What I’m getting at is, if we make a random persona watch all G5 content blindly and then ask them; “If you had to choose. Which romantic route between the Mane 6 do you think feels the most likely?”, I think they’d probably name one of the more popular ships (like Stormblazer, Starblazer, Moonscout, etc.) before throwing out something more random like Petalscout or Moontrail.
But hey, at the end of the day, I guess it’s actually a good thing for the series, since it sparks conversations like this and opens the door for some really interesting idea exchanges.
@Background Pony #A935
But that’s the thing, I’m not really talking about whether or not a story is well-written, but that there exists a bias (not talking about you, just in general) that queer ships need to be handled a certain way to be accepted in a way that straight ships do not. My point is that, had Hitch been a mare, his interactions with Zipp should still be seen as “shipping fuel” by its fans without anything changing. Or the other way around, if Zipp were a stallion, then the chemistry I mentioned with her female friends would, to many people, make them think that it could potentially develop into a romance.
Straight and queer ships are simply not made equal, due to the world we still live in. We still struggle with prejudice. I don’t really believe having a femenine character be a lesbian is any more progressive than a masculine one. Both are heavily underepresented, again, specially in animation. There is no long list of Vis and Caitlyns as there is of Zipps and Hitchs.
And about your last point, I totally agree, I just think that this applies to all the Mane 6 ships. It would be equally realistic for Stormblazer to happen just as Stormscout or Dawnstorm, etc. The foundation is there, because they are all friends, and all it would need is for the narrative to go in that direction. It’s just that this franchise most likely won’t, and if they do, it will be the safe, non-controversial route. For straight ships? Probably pairing them with someone unrelated. For queer ships? Merely implying it, like in this comic. Like with Appledash.
But in my opinion, as shippers, all we really need is the foundation to have fun and speculate. Canon seldom works in the way we want.
It’s a completely valid interpretation of Zipp’s character, backed up by someone who had insider info as far as I know. So it’s more than just headcannon.
Wasn’t designed or written as nb. That’s not an official thing. But people can have that as a headcanon if that makes feel better.
Actually, plenty of people get emotionally invested in ships that are unlikely to be canon. Not because they have no canon basis, but because of things like censorship (like I mentioned for most queer ships) or simply because the story is going in another direction, etc. But to me and other shippers, the point is to explore the dynamic and potential itself. The reward is to see a community thrive and make fanworks.
Sure! It’s something I’ve mentioned before, how I feel about Zipp’s identity is kind of a very specific case. In most other scenarios, I probably wouldn’t have paid it that much attention. But as we said, it’s a completetly subjective thing.
It’s because you have a different interpretation of Zipp than I do, and that’s okay. Though not wanting a character to be queer does, unfortunately, usually come from a place of bigotry for many people, in your case it seems you just don’t want Zipp to have a certain archetype or storyline that goes against your interpretation. And that I can understand. That’s just preference, and like you said, something subjective. Nothing wrong with that. In a way, it’s the reason why some people are drawn to specific ships.
I totally get it. I have a bunch of ships I still love, even if they got sunk in favor of another one that came up in the story. It usually doesn’t bother me too much when it’s a ship I kind of knew from the start wasn’t going to happen. But it does sting when the ship actually made sense and seemed like it had a real shot, only to be pushed aside for some unexpected romance. That’s the part that leaves a bad taste. Like, if it just doesn’t become canon, at least the ambiguity leaves room to imagine things your own way. It keeps the magic alive a bit. But when a new ship pops up and completely changes the dynamic for both the story and the fandom, it creates that bitter feeling of “what could’ve been” or “what we lost.” And that feeling sticks, even if you choose to hang out with fans who feel the same way, or just ignore the fandom altogether. It still changes how you see the story.
I understand that it’s a possibility, but again, even if Zipp gets together with Chrys, that won’t stop people from shipping other ships. It might just make some fans shift their focus. As in, there would be fanart and fanfic featuring Zipp/Chrys for a time, probably. As it tends to happen.
Yeah, pretty true. I really like that we’re mostly on the same page with a lot of this stuff and that we don’t actually think so differently.
Oh, tell me about it! I’m a shipper at heart, and it’s part of what makes liking stories and characters so enjoyable, so I totally get it. I also think the avoidance of overt romantic cues actually forces the writing to really present the relationship between two characters as something that works, even if the intent is usually platonic.
Yeah, I also tend to think about official pairings and ships as separate things. Canon pairings receive more scrunity because as something official, they will greatly be affected by the writing. But ships I think of as a fandom thing. The “writing” will greatly vary from person to person, you know?
If so, I don’t agree with those people. I think that attitude is kind of toxic. Not only because it ignores orientations like being bi or pan, but because I don’t believe anything in fandom can overwrite what is canon in general, so fans should be able to do what they want.
Yeah, I think something we really have in common is that we’re able to look at ships a bit more objectively, beyond just our personal preferences. I don’t usually judge a ship just because it’s queer or straight unless the story is specifically trying to talk about that, which doesn’t happen that often.
I understand your worry, I really do. But I personally think they’re not replacing anything. I don’t mean it in the romantic sense, as I believe there was none to begin with, for any Mane 6 character. I mean in the dynamic sense. Hitch and Zipp will continue to be the buddy cop duo, just like Sunny and Zipp will continue being the explorers, etc.
Sure, I think we can agree that, even if each relationship had a different level of closeness, we can’t really know what else might’ve happened between them or where things could’ve gone. It’s kind of sad, but at least we can have fun speculating about it.
Zipp and Hitch are the buddy cop duo, like Izzy and Pipp are the artists, etc. They were going to give all of them something to bond over and/or play off each other. It’s just sad that we’ll never see how it was gonna play out now that no content will come out. But at least we have fandom, huh?
Trust me, I do get it. It’s clear that even today, there are still prejudices or misunderstandings around queer representation in media. And yeah, it would be awesome if someday it could just be accepted without causing such a fuss. But that really depends on how we grow as a society.
I don’t think I’m making myself clear, because I do agree with your general points, so I apologize if I’m not explaing in a way that you can understand.
The issue often comes down to how we talk about “good writing”and the idea that, with good writing, almost any narrative choice can be made to work. But that raises a question: how do we actually define good writing? A simple definition might be “a story that makes sense and feels coherent.” It sounds simple, but in practice, it’s surprisingly difficult to achieve. Every story sets certain expectations for its audience, and when those expectations are suddenly shifted, replaced, or contradicted can create a sense of dissonance, And I think this entire debate is proof of that, a simple comic completely polarized our opinions about how relationships and representation should be handled within the franchise.
It’s not necessarily about the ship being queer (although I do not deny that some people may do it for this reason), it’s about how the storytelling handled (or didn’t handle) its development. And that’s why some people remain uncertain about whether it was ever truly intended to be canon.
That type of thing will always be subjective, because at the end of the day, if a story is well-written it’s well written. Feelings are not necessesarily rational, and what we believe makes a ship work is based on our own beliefs of what makes a romantic relationship work. Or not work. You get the idea. So what “makes sense” to you or me will not always make sense to someone else. What matters, in my opinion, is whether or not the writers accomplished whatever they were going for, in presenting their intentions in the work. I think this is true of fiction in general.
The first leak is reasonable to use as shipping fuel by fans, but it does not tell us anything about canon other than Zipp and Hitch’s relationship was seemingly going to resemble Pipp and Zipp’s in the present. As that line means that even though they don’t always understand each other’s POV, they deep down don’t mind it in the slightest. This dynamic ended up not being a thing in MYM.
I was aware of the first leak, I didn’t bring it up directly in the conversation because I felt it was already kind of implied when I said I saw potential for Stormblazer to happen or that their dynamic felt special. Objectively, it doesn’t confirm a canon relationship, but it does tell us their bond was unique, which, as a Stormblazer fan, I appreciate fondly.
True. Although I think we should also take into that the canon decisions are not always necessarily the best for the story. Sometimes, even if a couple is ‘justified’ within the story, it can still feel off if the character’s idea doesn’t match the relationship they’re presenting. And this can create a bit of a conflict for the audience because, while it doesn’t feel ‘forced,’ it doesn’t feel quite right either. And it’s not always about being biased toward another ship, but more like the decisions seem random or unfitting rather than ing the storyline. I get that it’s impossible to please everyone, but I do think it’s fair to say that some decisions will be received better than others.
Of course, but my point was that should the narrative go in that direction, that it already has a foundation, and all the pairings with lesser screentime really need would be that, screentime. To interact and bond. In this hypothetical scenario, where MLP does have a romance arc, they would make the chosen couple interact. It’s really as simple as that. Whether the chosen couple is of our preference is another matter altogether. For things to stay consistent and coherent it would only require good writing in general, really.
Totally fair points. Though, there’s one thing you said near the end that made me want to share a little thought. Again, this might just be my own bias talking, but I’m not sure I’d fully agree that all the Mane 6 ships would have the same chance of happening if the story decided to go that route. I mean, yeah—technically, the writers can make anything happen, whether it makes sense or not. That goes for romance and just narrative choices in general. But let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that the writers and directors want to keep things consistent and coherent.
But that’s the thing, I’m not really talking about whether or not a story is well-written, but that there exists a bias (not talking about you, just in general) that queer ships need to be handled a certain way to be accepted in a way that straight ships do not. My point is that, had Hitch been a mare, his interactions with Zipp should still be seen as “shipping fuel” by its fans without anything changing. Or the other way around, if Zipp were a stallion, then the chemistry I mentioned with her female friends would, to many people, make them think that it could potentially develop into a romance.