@Just pony
…What does Russia have to do at all with the US Civil War? As I recall, Alexander II was too busy dealing with serfdom to deal with the US really at all until 1867.
@TexasUberAlles
Personally, I’m hoping for a “Heritage, Not Hate” shirt with the Decepticon insignia or other easily-recognized symbol of a fictional evil dictatorship (so that the shirt gets the message across but can be worn in public without the wearer getting the crap beaten out of them).
@rogerSnow
I’ll be waiting for that genius causal link between symbolism and this hate crime
Sorry you don’t understand the effects of symbolism– or propaganda, or terrorism, apparently– on a society, but by all means, don’t take my word for it. This CSA Naval Jack that people call “The Confederate Flag” was popularized as such by the Dixiecrats in the ‘40s and ‘50s specifically and deliberately as a symbol of for segregation. People wrap themselves in flags– literally, in this case– for a reason; no, I am not in fact saying that the mere act of looking at a flag with over 150 years of representing racist ideology is enough to turn a sweet summer child into a mass-murdering race war weeaboo, but the effect of symbols on reinforcing ideologies and enabling direct action based on them has indeed been well documented by sociologists and historians for quite some time.
And speaking of “quite some time”, I’ve lived in rural and small town Texas for almost all of my 42 years, if “tenure in a place with plenty of out-in-the-open racism” is your preferred benchmark for observational legitimacy. Maybe you’ve never noticed the rather pronounced difference in the way people whose pickup trucks are all slathered up with Confederate iconography talk to White people as opposed to how they talk to Black and Latino people, but I’ve certainly directly observed the change in attitude from when they talk to my pale German-Texan self and when they talk to my Hispanic relatives and Black coworkers. I’m afraid you’ve got rather quite a larger gap in reasoning to jump with your assertion that racist symbolism has no connection whatsoever to practical racism than I do with my assertion that it does.
using 9 murder victims to further your agenda
So your position then is that referring to a recent hate crime as part of an anti-hate crime agenda– and that being anti-hate crime somehow constitutes an “agenda”– is somehow beyond the pale? Again, plenty of books have been written on the subject of racist symbolism effects on society and its role in perpetuating racist culture.
@TexasUberAlles
I’ll be waiting for that genius causal link between symbolism and this hate crime. You’ve given some vague hand wavey “relation to” argument and horseshit about desensitization to hate crimes because of symbols not being taboo. Pretty sure Roof murdering 9 people got a pretty big fucking reaction regardless of SC having a confederate flag up. But hey, not like I lived in that region for the first 26 years of my life. You read a Wikipedia article so I’m sure you know more about it than I do.
Oh hey, as long as we’re on the subject of checking oneself, please— do tell me some more about “bullying bullshit”, dude whose entry into this thread was “I hope they leave it up because it pisses people off”.
Oh yeah, exact same thing as using 9 murder victims to further your agenda.
Don’t know what I expected from a guy that thought “may the best pet win” ed rape culture.
@Background Pony #D666
I bet a rainbow-colored Confederate Gay Pride flag would piss everyone off. That actually would be kinda funny in a Springtime For Hitler sort of way.
You honestly do not understand the concept of treating the symbols of a persistent national crisis like they’re totes r0xx0r no big deal directly helping to continue the crisis, do you? Read a History book some time, the assholes perpetrating this shit certainly seem to think that symbolism is important, since they’ve been using it in an ongoing campaign of domestic terrorism for a century and a half now.
Do you expect that if you were arguing here that Bellamy Salutes and swastikas have absolutely no effect on or relation to neo-nazi ideology or the hate crimes it generates, you’d be taken any more seriously? The shitpiece literally posted photos of himself with this flag, with a clear and unambiguous message of for the racism it represents. Treating shit like swastikas and Confederate flags like no big deal directly contributes to a mindset of the attendant, inevitable, racist hate crimes also being no big deal. Smarter people than both of us have built sociology careers on studying the ways that evil in society becomes normalized and invisible due to desensitization.
Oh hey, as long as we’re on the subject of checking oneself, please– do tell me some more about “bullying bullshit”, dude whose entry into this thread was “I hope they leave it up because it pisses people off”.
@SemPBron3
Sure dude, it “doesn’t matter”. Tell it to the nine families that all planned funerals together last week in South Carolina, I’m sure they care real hard about the fragility of your masculinity.
I don’t have a horse in this race, but you really need to fucking check yourself here with your dishonest bullying bullshit that you love to do all of the fucking time. Roof didn’t fucking kill 9 people because of a fucking flag and the people ing or indifferent to the existence of the flag don’t have to fucking answer for their deaths.
@SemPBron3
Sure dude, it “doesn’t matter”. Tell it to the nine families that all planned funerals together last week in South Carolina, I’m sure they care real hard about the fragility of your masculinity.
You honestly do not understand the concept of treating the symbols of a persistent national crisis like they’re totes r0xx0r no big deal directly helping to continue the crisis, do you? Read a History book some time, the assholes perpetrating this shit certainly seem to think that symbolism is important, since they’ve been using it in an ongoing campaign of domestic terrorism for a century and a half now.
@TexasUberAlles
I don’t care about the flag, I’m not from the south, to me it’s just a piece of fabric. I care about how butt touched people get about shit that doesn’t matter. Banning a flag won’t get rid of racism. It’ll just make you look like a pussy.
@SemPBron3
There’s some butthurt goin’ on here alright. So terribly sorry that the official flag of racist traitors to America is falling out of favor just ’cuz a racist traitor metaphorically wrapped himself in it before murdering a bunch of worshippers during a church service.
@Adnurs
Nope, they did, people are too offended by it. And if enough people get butt hurt the PD (Politically Correct Police Department) illegalise it to keep vaginas from getting injured.
i’m german and not offended about that at all. but it’s entertaining to see others loose their minds about that, lol.
Ah. Well, it is just a saltire, a traditional flag design. Here are a whole bunch of them, the CSA and Novorossiya included.
http://rusnext.ru/sites/default/files/novorossiya_3.png
…What does Russia have to do at all with the US Civil War? As I recall, Alexander II was too busy dealing with serfdom to deal with the US really at all until 1867.
Personally, I’m hoping for a “Heritage, Not Hate” shirt with the Decepticon insignia or other easily-recognized symbol of a fictional evil dictatorship (so that the shirt gets the message across but can be worn in public without the wearer getting the crap beaten out of them).
Okay, whatever then.
Have fun shouting at yourself, then, I only go to like four or five threads in the forums and that ain’t one of them.
Don’t know if my comment was too long so I’m posting it in the forums.
I’ll be waiting for that genius causal link between symbolism and this hate crime
Sorry you don’t understand the effects of symbolism– or propaganda, or terrorism, apparently– on a society, but by all means, don’t take my word for it. This CSA Naval Jack that people call “The Confederate Flag” was popularized as such by the Dixiecrats in the ‘40s and ‘50s specifically and deliberately as a symbol of for segregation. People wrap themselves in flags– literally, in this case– for a reason; no, I am not in fact saying that the mere act of looking at a flag with over 150 years of representing racist ideology is enough to turn a sweet summer child into a mass-murdering race war weeaboo, but the effect of symbols on reinforcing ideologies and enabling direct action based on them has indeed been well documented by sociologists and historians for quite some time.
And speaking of “quite some time”, I’ve lived in rural and small town Texas for almost all of my 42 years, if “tenure in a place with plenty of out-in-the-open racism” is your preferred benchmark for observational legitimacy. Maybe you’ve never noticed the rather pronounced difference in the way people whose pickup trucks are all slathered up with Confederate iconography talk to White people as opposed to how they talk to Black and Latino people, but I’ve certainly directly observed the change in attitude from when they talk to my pale German-Texan self and when they talk to my Hispanic relatives and Black coworkers. I’m afraid you’ve got rather quite a larger gap in reasoning to jump with your assertion that racist symbolism has no connection whatsoever to practical racism than I do with my assertion that it does.
using 9 murder victims to further your agenda
So your position then is that referring to a recent hate crime as part of an anti-hate crime agenda– and that being anti-hate crime somehow constitutes an “agenda”– is somehow beyond the pale? Again, plenty of books have been written on the subject of racist symbolism effects on society and its role in perpetuating racist culture.
I’ll be waiting for that genius causal link between symbolism and this hate crime. You’ve given some vague hand wavey “relation to” argument and horseshit about desensitization to hate crimes because of symbols not being taboo. Pretty sure Roof murdering 9 people got a pretty big fucking reaction regardless of SC having a confederate flag up. But hey, not like I lived in that region for the first 26 years of my life. You read a Wikipedia article so I’m sure you know more about it than I do.
Oh yeah, exact same thing as using 9 murder victims to further your agenda.
Don’t know what I expected from a guy that thought “may the best pet win” ed rape culture.
I bet a rainbow-colored Confederate Gay Pride flag would piss everyone off. That actually would be kinda funny in a Springtime For Hitler sort of way.
Oh hey, as long as we’re on the subject of checking oneself, please– do tell me some more about “bullying bullshit”, dude whose entry into this thread was “I hope they leave it up because it pisses people off”.
I don’t have a horse in this race, but you really need to fucking check yourself here with your dishonest bullying bullshit that you love to do all of the fucking time. Roof didn’t fucking kill 9 people because of a fucking flag and the people ing or indifferent to the existence of the flag don’t have to fucking answer for their deaths.
Sure dude, it “doesn’t matter”. Tell it to the nine families that all planned funerals together last week in South Carolina, I’m sure they care real hard about the fragility of your masculinity.
You honestly do not understand the concept of treating the symbols of a persistent national crisis like they’re totes r0xx0r no big deal directly helping to continue the crisis, do you? Read a History book some time, the assholes perpetrating this shit certainly seem to think that symbolism is important, since they’ve been using it in an ongoing campaign of domestic terrorism for a century and a half now.
I don’t care about the flag, I’m not from the south, to me it’s just a piece of fabric. I care about how butt touched people get about shit that doesn’t matter. Banning a flag won’t get rid of racism. It’ll just make you look like a pussy.
There’s some butthurt goin’ on here alright. So terribly sorry that the official flag of racist traitors to America is falling out of favor just ’cuz a racist traitor metaphorically wrapped himself in it before murdering a bunch of worshippers during a church service.
Nope, they did, people are too offended by it. And if enough people get butt hurt the PD (Politically Correct Police Department) illegalise it to keep vaginas from getting injured.