@helix86
We’re not discussing the meaning of an artist, look at earlier posts you, yourself, made. The discussion pertains to why they would change from their older “better” (as you called it) style, to a more humanized style.
I already itted that our opinions of what an artist would be, solely that statement, would be identical, so I don’t know why you’re being thick-headed about it now. You literally said, in a comment after I accepted your statement, that I was trolling. I can only assume you failed to read any of the comment at all and just started typing to end the conversation.
The question was “Why would they change their style?”, it was answered, you didn’t accept the answer and went on tangents based around “what an artist is” in a literal definition, failing to recognize how it would pertain to real life situations like trying to make a lifestyle out of it as several of these artists are trying to legitimately do.
Wrong. Being a PROFESSIONAL artist means making a career out of it, but anyone who draws is an artist by definition. “Professional” is the word you seem to be failing to grasp, but there’s one thing we can at least agree on at this point:
At the end of the day, this end-result of “dismissing the chat” is just what I get for trying to give things like “reason” a chance. Whatever, this chat is as done as Murdershy’s life.
@ShimmeringStallion sigh yknow even when you claim to understand you still show how lil you actually understand. ive been patient with this but with how youve pursisted with the narrow minded ignorance ive gotta assume at this point your just trollin or somethin and ive got way to much to do to waste time on a troll. so if you are a troll or insist on continuing to ignore common sense im not continuing this ‘conversation’
im just leavin this at this the literal definition of artist is, and i quote ‘a person who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic criteria.’ that says nothing about doing it for money, in fact art as a job or money arent even mentioned till the 3rd alternative.
by definition an artist is someone who creates art. being an artist to you means making money, and theres nothin wrong with that, but making money doesn’t make you an artist. your thinking long term twords a carrier as an artist but im not im just talking about what makes a person an artist and enjoying art without intending to make money from it. it isnt short term it just means i like art but dont want to make a carrier out of it and theres nothin wrong with that either.
misunderstanding or not this conversations starting to get annoying and wasting alot of time so im done with it. do wat you will with what i said i dont really care anymore.
@helix86
I can see the problem between our arguments, pretty clearly: You’re looking at what I’m saying as being equal to saying “You’re not an artist if you’re not doing it for money”, and I’m seeing what you’re saying as “You’re an artist as long as you draw art.”
With that in mind, our views of what qualifies as an ‘artist’ seem to differ greatly. I’m narrow-minded as I see what it would be about in the long-term and looking at it from the perspective of why “it would need” to change. You’re looking at it too much from a perspective that adheres to the rules of a short-term mindset, and saying “They produce art, they are artists!” but that doesn’t answer your question at all.
I gave you an answer, I gave you a reason, I justified the reason with a common long-term goal: Doing art, leading to art being done professionally as a career-choice, and what would be needed to do so. If the starting subject was “what is an artist?”, we’d literally be sharing your opinion. That said, your question wasn’t about what MAKES an artist, but rather, why they would change their art-style.
My answers stem from “continuing to answer” the original question, while also trying to tackle newer ones presented. You were the one who brought up the original subject, which wasn’t “what makes an artist”!
You brought the question to mind, and even though it wasn’t a direct question (more of a statement I chose to clarify), that’s what I’m still focused on answering, even now.
‘being an artist is more than just “skill”, but rather, showing it in a way that will make people see that skill.’
that’s not what bein an artist means thats what some artists choose to do get that strait, as long as you love art and like to draw your an artist regardless of if you ever intend to share your art with others or not.
‘If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what ponies can enable you to draw.’
well your on the right track but you still make it sound like ponies are just for amateurs and thats simply not true. while ponies are simple by design their by no means a lower form of art style. more accurately would be something like ‘If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what one subject and style can enable you to draw.’
‘Because no one ELSE is gonna pay ’em for their pony-art aside from generous fans.’
its not just pony artists its all artists because patreon itself is a useful way to earn money from your fanbase regardless of what you draw, heck ive seen a handful of youtubers usin patreon too and they usually do pretty well without donations. its got nothin to do with bein a pony artist, its just a generally practical tool for anyone with any kinda fanbase.
‘Only one is gonna get some of these artists fed…’
this wasnt a matter of money, you keep tryin to make it about money. the discussion was about artists like jay and murdershys mod switching styles and their focus and you started turnin it to a discussion about what an artist is. even now you still seem to think that bein an artist is all about making money and thats just wrong not to mention about as narrow minded as you can get.
yes alot of artist want to make money from their art but making money from their art doesnt make them an artist it only makes them an artist who makes money from their art. being an artist just means you like to draw so you draw, what you do with your art after that is irrelevant cause regardless of what you do as long as you keep drawin your still an artist.
@helix86
It’s not “one pretending to be an artist”, far from that. It’s just that being an artist is more than just “skill”, but rather, showing it in a way that will make people see that skill. For instance, you wanted to style art for a video game set in an ancient era, you’d show something related to the subject to get the interest of a company. When drawing pony-related material, AS PONIES, there’s very little that the average mind can see worth in when it comes to potential for that artist.
It’s not “If you draw ponies, you’re not an artist”, but rather, “If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what ponies can enable you to draw.” Again, don’t get me wrong, there’s some fantastic pony-art that I see at conventions, but… that said? That’s all art meant for fans of those franchises. It’ll pay a lot, but nowhere near as much as a company looking to hire an aspiring artist.
These artists, they aren’t getting any younger, and being an artist is a heck of a means of trying to make a living. Heck, it’s why so many have Patreons now: Because no one ELSE is gonna pay ‘em for their pony-art aside from generous fans. Most of them know it’s not only a phase, but a phase destined to be ed over if they ever want to advance with their lives.
I guess what I’m saying is… Ponies are for children… little girls (and boys) and, despite the demographic stating that it’s universal… the rest of the world is FAR from being at the point where it will accept such an explanation and try making money off of it in different ways. At the end of the day, we’re ‘judged’ in two ways: By our morals, and our ‘worth’.
@ShimmeringStallion
i say its a shallow way of thinking because the way you see it, or at least how you say it, is so simple minded. you speak like if you mainly draw ponies or prefer to draw ponies then your no artist your just a lil kid pretending to be an artist and thats not just wrong its flat out ignorant.
even if someone were to solely draw ponies, regardless of how unlikely that is, it doesnt make them any less of an artist then anyone else. it may make them an idiot in a business sense but it doesnt mean their not an artist.
from the sounds of your last reply the way you mean it is as an artist if you wanna be able to make money from your art you have to broaden your horizons and no offense that’s kinda a no duh but the way you said it didnt imply thats what you meant. thats why i said you should probably work on your phrasing cause like i said your original explanation sounded like you were just flat out saying if you just draw ponies your not actually an artist.
this isnt directed twords you its just a general statement directed to anyone who may see this. an artist is someone who likes to draw, good or bad doesnt matter if you like to draw then your an artist. the quality or value of your art doesnt make you anymore or less of an artist, the quality and value of a persons art determines only how much you can sell it for and of course the likelihood of gettin bombarded with requests lol
@helix86
If they outright say “I’m changing my style to broaden my experience”, in extreme cases, people translate that to “I’m leaving the fandom”, and then others consider that to mean something similar, like “preparing to leave the fandom”.
Most of us can acknowledge MLP:FiM, and the act of enjoying it, as little more than a fad in life. That said, no one’s going to go up to a pony-artist and solely start asking for stuff pertaining to another Franchise… “Can you draw Chip N’ Dale: Rescue Rangers, as ponies?”…
Anthro, on the other hand, has a massive fanbase dedicated to it. There’s as many “This pony art would be great, if it wasn’t anthro”, as there is “This anthro would be great, if it wasn’t catering to bronies”. We just don’t see it much ‘cause Derpibooru’s sort’ve exclusive to MLP and MLP:FiM, so posts like ‘that’ don’t get posted a lot HERE.
And yes, I meant my first statement as you considered it. Why the heck would anyone say “I like animal art, but ONLY ponies”? You need to corner the market, not wait for the market to come to you, ‘cause it’ll never happen unless you start following trends and working towards it.
It’s like the “Indie Game Developer”-argument of how successful Indie-Games are. There’s a LOT of crappy Indie-made games made by people who only tried catering to the interests of a single group, rather than trying to use creativity or follow trends to gather the interest of several different groups. And if, by the time your product is ready, you’re only trying to please one group, you better not be trying to make money for your product…
@ShimmeringStallion
‘It’s not like you’ll become an artist worthy of merit in the real world on pony art.’
you should work on your phrasing a bit, you make it sound like your sayin an artist or specializes in or only draws ponies is a joke. im really hoping thats not how you meant that cause if it was thats a pretty shallow way of thinking.
as for the stuff about wanting to get more practice drawing anthros translating to they wanna move away from ponies i could see how that would make sense but its still a pretty dumb reason to completely change the thing their known for and throw away any quality they had.
if its really just about gettin practice drawin anthros then they can just do that on the side and if its really about them wanting to move away from ponies they instead of makin up bs excuses they should just say thats why their changing the style or whatever.
either way id expect them to at least try getting good at the style they choose to switch to, even now jays lil miss rarity stuff is drawn even more half assed then the story. at this point i have a hard time even looking at any of his newer stuff cause its just ridiculous and the only reason i still follow lil miss rarity is on the foolish hope that some day things will go back to how they were before the reboot and style change.
@helix86
I can understand that a LITTLE… What I said was more general reasons for switching a style. That said, “needing more work with anthros” can also mean that they wish to draw more art not pertaining to ponies. In other words, “preparing to move on with their lives at some point”.
I can definitely understand the argument, what with how pony-art basically ends here. It’s not like you’ll become an artist worthy of merit in the real world on pony art. You’d need to show your craft with human, animal, and anthro.
@ShimmeringStallion
while those are fairly decent reasons to draw anthro for things like this im pretty sure, if i recall correctly, murdershys mod and jays reason for switching was cause they felt like they needed more practice drawing anthros which is an incredibly retarded reason to switch the art so drastically. im pretty sure i even jay specifically say when people kept askin why he switched lil miss rarity to anthros was because he needed to practice drawing anthros.
@helix86
The thing is, there’s primarily a reason for that. Whether it’s victims or murderers, the anthro-style has human characteristics, which, while easier to draw, also serve another purpose: It makes gore easier to not only draw, but also logically predictable. You know exactly what’s located where, how it realistically affects various traits, how a weapon would be held, used, thrown, etc. This not only changes the way their art is drawn, but allows them to commit to a consistent style that’s well-known by most artists.
While most say it’s a thing based around them just wanting to draw more breasts and butts, it’s primarily because the human body is just so much more well-known, that they don’t need to look up diagrams to figure out where certain organs might be. ittedly, this would be more creative and disturbing (Since it’s basically killing ponies graphically, with attention to detail), but also a lot more room for error, and a lot more chances to turn off an audience of casual viewers (Since most wouldn’t be quite comfortable seeing their favorite ponies from the show slowly butchered).
@ShimmeringStallion
actually murdershy seemed to take the same route jay did exactly, he did the same thing went from pretty well drawn ponies to half ass anthros and a poor plot that just seems focused of flash. its kinda irritating that all the really good artists seem to either quit or switch to a much worse style.
ah the good ol days when murdershy was still cute and well drawn, before the artist decided to redesign her into a half ass generic big tit anthro bimbo and just seemed to stop caring about makin the blog good and settled for mediocre at best.
We’re not discussing the meaning of an artist, look at earlier posts you, yourself, made. The discussion pertains to why they would change from their older “better” (as you called it) style, to a more humanized style.
I already itted that our opinions of what an artist would be, solely that statement, would be identical, so I don’t know why you’re being thick-headed about it now. You literally said, in a comment after I accepted your statement, that I was trolling. I can only assume you failed to read any of the comment at all and just started typing to end the conversation.
The question was “Why would they change their style?”, it was answered, you didn’t accept the answer and went on tangents based around “what an artist is” in a literal definition, failing to recognize how it would pertain to real life situations like trying to make a lifestyle out of it as several of these artists are trying to legitimately do.
@helix86
Wrong. Being a PROFESSIONAL artist means making a career out of it, but anyone who draws is an artist by definition. “Professional” is the word you seem to be failing to grasp, but there’s one thing we can at least agree on at this point:
@helix86
At the end of the day, this end-result of “dismissing the chat” is just what I get for trying to give things like “reason” a chance. Whatever, this chat is as done as Murdershy’s life.
sigh yknow even when you claim to understand you still show how lil you actually understand. ive been patient with this but with how youve pursisted with the narrow minded ignorance ive gotta assume at this point your just trollin or somethin and ive got way to much to do to waste time on a troll. so if you are a troll or insist on continuing to ignore common sense im not continuing this ‘conversation’
im just leavin this at this the literal definition of artist is, and i quote ‘a person who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic criteria.’ that says nothing about doing it for money, in fact art as a job or money arent even mentioned till the 3rd alternative.
by definition an artist is someone who creates art. being an artist to you means making money, and theres nothin wrong with that, but making money doesn’t make you an artist. your thinking long term twords a carrier as an artist but im not im just talking about what makes a person an artist and enjoying art without intending to make money from it. it isnt short term it just means i like art but dont want to make a carrier out of it and theres nothin wrong with that either.
misunderstanding or not this conversations starting to get annoying and wasting alot of time so im done with it. do wat you will with what i said i dont really care anymore.
I can see the problem between our arguments, pretty clearly: You’re looking at what I’m saying as being equal to saying “You’re not an artist if you’re not doing it for money”, and I’m seeing what you’re saying as “You’re an artist as long as you draw art.”
With that in mind, our views of what qualifies as an ‘artist’ seem to differ greatly. I’m narrow-minded as I see what it would be about in the long-term and looking at it from the perspective of why “it would need” to change. You’re looking at it too much from a perspective that adheres to the rules of a short-term mindset, and saying “They produce art, they are artists!” but that doesn’t answer your question at all.
I gave you an answer, I gave you a reason, I justified the reason with a common long-term goal: Doing art, leading to art being done professionally as a career-choice, and what would be needed to do so. If the starting subject was “what is an artist?”, we’d literally be sharing your opinion. That said, your question wasn’t about what MAKES an artist, but rather, why they would change their art-style.
My answers stem from “continuing to answer” the original question, while also trying to tackle newer ones presented. You were the one who brought up the original subject, which wasn’t “what makes an artist”!
You brought the question to mind, and even though it wasn’t a direct question (more of a statement I chose to clarify), that’s what I’m still focused on answering, even now.
that’s not what bein an artist means thats what some artists choose to do get that strait, as long as you love art and like to draw your an artist regardless of if you ever intend to share your art with others or not.
‘If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what ponies can enable you to draw.’
well your on the right track but you still make it sound like ponies are just for amateurs and thats simply not true. while ponies are simple by design their by no means a lower form of art style. more accurately would be something like ‘If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what one subject and style can enable you to draw.’
‘Because no one ELSE is gonna pay ’em for their pony-art aside from generous fans.’
its not just pony artists its all artists because patreon itself is a useful way to earn money from your fanbase regardless of what you draw, heck ive seen a handful of youtubers usin patreon too and they usually do pretty well without donations. its got nothin to do with bein a pony artist, its just a generally practical tool for anyone with any kinda fanbase.
‘Only one is gonna get some of these artists fed…’
this wasnt a matter of money, you keep tryin to make it about money. the discussion was about artists like jay and murdershys mod switching styles and their focus and you started turnin it to a discussion about what an artist is. even now you still seem to think that bein an artist is all about making money and thats just wrong not to mention about as narrow minded as you can get.
yes alot of artist want to make money from their art but making money from their art doesnt make them an artist it only makes them an artist who makes money from their art. being an artist just means you like to draw so you draw, what you do with your art after that is irrelevant cause regardless of what you do as long as you keep drawin your still an artist.
It’s not “one pretending to be an artist”, far from that. It’s just that being an artist is more than just “skill”, but rather, showing it in a way that will make people see that skill. For instance, you wanted to style art for a video game set in an ancient era, you’d show something related to the subject to get the interest of a company. When drawing pony-related material, AS PONIES, there’s very little that the average mind can see worth in when it comes to potential for that artist.
It’s not “If you draw ponies, you’re not an artist”, but rather, “If you wish to make a living as an artist, you must go well beyond what ponies can enable you to draw.” Again, don’t get me wrong, there’s some fantastic pony-art that I see at conventions, but… that said? That’s all art meant for fans of those franchises. It’ll pay a lot, but nowhere near as much as a company looking to hire an aspiring artist.
These artists, they aren’t getting any younger, and being an artist is a heck of a means of trying to make a living. Heck, it’s why so many have Patreons now: Because no one ELSE is gonna pay ‘em for their pony-art aside from generous fans. Most of them know it’s not only a phase, but a phase destined to be ed over if they ever want to advance with their lives.
I guess what I’m saying is… Ponies are for children… little girls (and boys) and, despite the demographic stating that it’s universal… the rest of the world is FAR from being at the point where it will accept such an explanation and try making money off of it in different ways. At the end of the day, we’re ‘judged’ in two ways: By our morals, and our ‘worth’.
Only one is gonna get some of these artists fed…
i say its a shallow way of thinking because the way you see it, or at least how you say it, is so simple minded. you speak like if you mainly draw ponies or prefer to draw ponies then your no artist your just a lil kid pretending to be an artist and thats not just wrong its flat out ignorant.
even if someone were to solely draw ponies, regardless of how unlikely that is, it doesnt make them any less of an artist then anyone else. it may make them an idiot in a business sense but it doesnt mean their not an artist.
from the sounds of your last reply the way you mean it is as an artist if you wanna be able to make money from your art you have to broaden your horizons and no offense that’s kinda a no duh but the way you said it didnt imply thats what you meant. thats why i said you should probably work on your phrasing cause like i said your original explanation sounded like you were just flat out saying if you just draw ponies your not actually an artist.
this isnt directed twords you its just a general statement directed to anyone who may see this. an artist is someone who likes to draw, good or bad doesnt matter if you like to draw then your an artist. the quality or value of your art doesnt make you anymore or less of an artist, the quality and value of a persons art determines only how much you can sell it for and of course the likelihood of gettin bombarded with requests lol
If they outright say “I’m changing my style to broaden my experience”, in extreme cases, people translate that to “I’m leaving the fandom”, and then others consider that to mean something similar, like “preparing to leave the fandom”.
Most of us can acknowledge MLP:FiM, and the act of enjoying it, as little more than a fad in life. That said, no one’s going to go up to a pony-artist and solely start asking for stuff pertaining to another Franchise… “Can you draw Chip N’ Dale: Rescue Rangers, as ponies?”…
Anthro, on the other hand, has a massive fanbase dedicated to it. There’s as many “This pony art would be great, if it wasn’t anthro”, as there is “This anthro would be great, if it wasn’t catering to bronies”. We just don’t see it much ‘cause Derpibooru’s sort’ve exclusive to MLP and MLP:FiM, so posts like ‘that’ don’t get posted a lot HERE.
And yes, I meant my first statement as you considered it. Why the heck would anyone say “I like animal art, but ONLY ponies”? You need to corner the market, not wait for the market to come to you, ‘cause it’ll never happen unless you start following trends and working towards it.
It’s like the “Indie Game Developer”-argument of how successful Indie-Games are. There’s a LOT of crappy Indie-made games made by people who only tried catering to the interests of a single group, rather than trying to use creativity or follow trends to gather the interest of several different groups. And if, by the time your product is ready, you’re only trying to please one group, you better not be trying to make money for your product…
… ‘cause you won’t be seeing much of it.
‘It’s not like you’ll become an artist worthy of merit in the real world on pony art.’
you should work on your phrasing a bit, you make it sound like your sayin an artist or specializes in or only draws ponies is a joke. im really hoping thats not how you meant that cause if it was thats a pretty shallow way of thinking.
as for the stuff about wanting to get more practice drawing anthros translating to they wanna move away from ponies i could see how that would make sense but its still a pretty dumb reason to completely change the thing their known for and throw away any quality they had.
if its really just about gettin practice drawin anthros then they can just do that on the side and if its really about them wanting to move away from ponies they instead of makin up bs excuses they should just say thats why their changing the style or whatever.
either way id expect them to at least try getting good at the style they choose to switch to, even now jays lil miss rarity stuff is drawn even more half assed then the story. at this point i have a hard time even looking at any of his newer stuff cause its just ridiculous and the only reason i still follow lil miss rarity is on the foolish hope that some day things will go back to how they were before the reboot and style change.
I can understand that a LITTLE… What I said was more general reasons for switching a style. That said, “needing more work with anthros” can also mean that they wish to draw more art not pertaining to ponies. In other words, “preparing to move on with their lives at some point”.
I can definitely understand the argument, what with how pony-art basically ends here. It’s not like you’ll become an artist worthy of merit in the real world on pony art. You’d need to show your craft with human, animal, and anthro.
while those are fairly decent reasons to draw anthro for things like this im pretty sure, if i recall correctly, murdershys mod and jays reason for switching was cause they felt like they needed more practice drawing anthros which is an incredibly retarded reason to switch the art so drastically. im pretty sure i even jay specifically say when people kept askin why he switched lil miss rarity to anthros was because he needed to practice drawing anthros.
The thing is, there’s primarily a reason for that. Whether it’s victims or murderers, the anthro-style has human characteristics, which, while easier to draw, also serve another purpose: It makes gore easier to not only draw, but also logically predictable. You know exactly what’s located where, how it realistically affects various traits, how a weapon would be held, used, thrown, etc. This not only changes the way their art is drawn, but allows them to commit to a consistent style that’s well-known by most artists.
While most say it’s a thing based around them just wanting to draw more breasts and butts, it’s primarily because the human body is just so much more well-known, that they don’t need to look up diagrams to figure out where certain organs might be. ittedly, this would be more creative and disturbing (Since it’s basically killing ponies graphically, with attention to detail), but also a lot more room for error, and a lot more chances to turn off an audience of casual viewers (Since most wouldn’t be quite comfortable seeing their favorite ponies from the show slowly butchered).
actually murdershy seemed to take the same route jay did exactly, he did the same thing went from pretty well drawn ponies to half ass anthros and a poor plot that just seems focused of flash. its kinda irritating that all the really good artists seem to either quit or switch to a much worse style.
Murderous and gritty as Lil Miss Jay’s art, overly huge breasts as some animes can only pull off.
not even sure what that was supposed to mean
So before it was anime crossed with lil miss jay?